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Главная » 2014 » Февраль » 16 » The Blue Sun Mod and it's philosophy
04:55
The Blue Sun Mod and it's philosophy
"The Blue Sun Mod and it's philosophy

In early 2009 I started on a small mod called B.F.X. where I borrowed a few weapons from various other mods. While working on this, the game was getting bad player reviews due to it's buggy state when released, even more so when released in English. The need to collect the community efforts fixing the bugs in the game became obvious, and I released the first unofficial patch.

Around that time I started thinking about what direction the mod should take, and what you see today is the result.

First I asked myself, should I spend time trying to improve on the weaker and less liked parts of the game, or should I spend it on improving and expanding the things I enjoyed the most? I chose the latter since the weaker parts were very complicated to fix, and involves a profound rework of most vanilla assets and code. I am eternally grateful to Dancer, Deadhead and Xelat for there work on these matters, it's a big part of BSM.

I loved the vast amount of tactical options in the game, the SPM and timing system used makes the gaming experience feel very real, and it's just brilliant. The idea that just one small decision or action affects the outcome of an engagement had every fight feel fresh and new. How the choice of which enemy to shoot at first, and having to keep reacting to what the enemy was doing, kept the battles flowing back and forth, as I said, brilliant.

I liked the skill system in the game, how it influenced the outcome of the merc's actions. I found myself spending hours harvesting skills, which in the end made the game boring. Someone suggested adding an XP system to give the player a chance to specialize their merc, and I saw that as an opportunity to improve my gaming experience and remove the need for harvesting.

I also enjoyed how new items became available, but in vanilla the enemy load-outs were not very varied which became boring in the end. I've made some improvements in that regard as well, still keeping a close eye on weapon progression to keep the player looking for better weapons and gear among the loot. This is a major part of BSM, you need to work hard if you want the good stuff.

I loved the weapon progression in the game, but they ruined that as well in vanilla by making AKMs and other too powerful weapon available early on. You would end up playing with the same weapons every time since they were so much better than any other available weapons. This was one of the first things I corrected and I have made sure that the player has a wide selection to choose from when gearing up their mercs.

Then there's the complexity and detail in almost every instance of the game, from bullet calculations to player options. Which brings us to the subject of realism, which this game has plenty of, some say not enough.

There are less enlightened people who have called the Blue Sun Mod clownish because it fails to comply with certain things considered realistic. Things like some weapons are only prototypes and should not be available in a South American country. Or some bandits should not be carrying this or that weapon because they are rare. Or the way I have kept the developers vision of how weapons behave in the game and not how they behave in the real world. Sorry, but i don't care about that as much, to me it's more important to have a balanced and fun game.

Game balance is the most important factor. Making it too hard for new players is not advisable, nor is making it too easy for the experienced ones. When I get a request to change or add something, this is always the first thing I have to consider, while the person who requests it might only be considering the realism point of view. In many cases, if I did what was requested I would probably end up making the game more boring for the players who enjoy it for the same reasons as I. That's why I'm glad there is a mod called Arma Realista, it has some "realism" mistakes and the result is IMHO a worse gaming experience than playing vanilla.

In the end, what you can expect from Blue Sun is a mod where you need to consider the merc stats when giving them their gear, especially the weapons. You will constantly be looking for that little edge, may it be in a weapon, attachment, tactic, skill or environment. How you build your team should depend on the tactics you plan to use, as well as what gear is available. You should expect a freedom and variety of choices, and the consequences of those." (с) Björn aka R@S
Просмотров: 2172 | Добавил: Vorot | Рейтинг: 4.0/3
Всего комментариев: 361 2 »
36  
what is bad that there are three diffrent mods, and depending on the mood you can play at any of them? :-[

32  
Так у тебя в одной ветке одно написано, во второй - другое, в третей - еще что нибудь придумаешь. А потом ты кидаешься ссылками на эти ветки и пытаешься ими доказывать что-то? Похоже мы нашли настоящего лжеца.
Цитата
Судя по лайф-джорналу Андрея Круза
А так это тоже не твоя личная идея, а опять откуда то позаимствованная? А может ты себе партнера уже нашел?

30  
Я говорю, что оружейные характеристики должны основываться на фактических данных, а не фантазиях. Если фактических данных нет или недостаточно, то вводить более детализированную систему расчета нет смысла, потому что с точки зрения достоверности это может привести к обратному результату.

35  
А вообще, можно ли сделать нечто подобное функции "реальное оружие" из JA2? И споры бы закончились.

29  
Ты там написал, (внимание) "оптимизированы по методу, который применялся в "Бригаде Е5" (файл JPG с переименованным расширением .tga)"
Иди учи мат-часть, в "ваниле" 7,62 текстуры персонажей это dds, переименованные в tga.

PS Знаешь про исследования, показывающие, что активная гомофобия с большой долей вероятности - признак латентной гомосексуальности?

26  
Does the things you have written there have anything to do with BSM? It is as if you never played BSM, and that page talks about things for another mod, and you got them mixed up? Could this be the reason why all your arguments never made any sense? Or are you just as ignorant as you seem to be?

27  
Там говорится о геймплее "7.62". BSM - это тоже мод к "7.62", как и HLA.

31  
Sorry, I was forgetting I was talking to someone with the comprehension level of a child. Let me try to dumb it down for you.

On that page, you say words like BSM and HLA, but the actual facts you
keep bringing up has nothing to do with either of those. If I made a
similar post about ARM, with the same type of factual errors, maybe you
would understand better? Do you want me to do that for you? Or do you
understand my point now?

33  
I guess then your answer is no, and you don't understand or care lol

24  
So, when you realize that you have no arguments to stand on, you try to insult. And when you fail at insulting, and realize that your logic is very, very flawed, you try the tactic used by children on schoolyards across the world, calling bad names. And you do this because you can never admit you have made a mistake, or that you have been wrong about something. crazy

Seriously, did your parents ever have you tested? If you are older than 5, this behavior is not normal. You seem have some mental issues that needs taking a closer look at, preferably by a professional.

I honestly do not understand how you can believe anything you say would actually offend me. All I'm trying to do is show you that your behavior is offensive to any intelligent person. Since I have no respect for your mental capacity, or your views on any matter, I don't care about this. Others might, and you are free to behave as badly as you want, just don't expect people to see you as anything other than a yokel and a fool.

P.S. I'm curious to see what he will come up with next, so far he has only used his inner child, maybe he can surprise everyone here biggrin

25  
Hi, Bjorn, to fully understand the meaning of these phrases:
Цитата
Some people like sex with woman, others like to have some variation

and
Цитата
Я использовал это как аллегорию, чтобы читателям данного материала стала лучше понятна разница доктрин Arma Realista и Blue Sun

a reader has to be familiar with history of his forum activity, for example he likes to use a term "the better part of community" to describe the players of his mod, assuming that others are scum and refuse.

Some examples you can read here, like declaration of his position as the most realistic and the only that can exist (even if the only proof is just someone told him that it is so), and who say otherwise are stupid.

Or, like you see, there are some terms that he invented and thinks that everyone use them or at least "the better part of community" do. By the way, never heard about "BSM style texture", but I know that he used (or still uses) .tga textures for his character models, instead of double quility .dds,  and even said that he will decrease resolution to 128x128 to decrease huge size of .tga's.

There is another cool story about ARM partialy integrated in later versions of HLA, by his personal partisipation, and after that he starts to whine that HLA siezed to much of his mod and killed it. Dispite the disclaimer for ARM, where he permit free use of this mod.

So, as you can see, this is much more than simple homophobia, it is a part of something bigger.

28  
Hey brother, thanks for clearing those up.

I think you are the one person who knows me best around here, and you know I am only doing
this to have some fun. I sort of already knew that Ron "Gurierrez"
Burgundy had some serious issues with reality, I just didn't realize how
bad it was. I have had fun finding it out though, and I hope more
people have had a laugh at Gutierrez expense.

Stay classy San Diego biggrin

34  
Цитата Deadhead
Some examples you can read here, like declaration of his position as the most realistic and the only that can exist (even if the only proof is just someone told him that it is so), and who say otherwise are stupid.
It takes some life experience and knowledge to realize that it's impossible to determine the truth. Anyone trying to tell you they know the truth are in fact only telling what they think is the truth. To be as sure as Gutierrez is about certain things is only an indication of his weak mind.

Цитата Deadhead
Or, like you see, there are some terms that he invented and thinks that everyone use them or at least "the better part of community" do.
Some people who don't like how the real world works, and how it treats them, usually make up these kinds of fantasies. It's why I asked to be shown more of these quotes, I wanted to know what color of the sky was while looking through Gutierrez's eyes. For the record, it was pink and had flying elephants, not at all as most people perceive it. biggrin

It's not as if I'm not aware that some textures are not that good, it's just funny that Gutierrez thinks that I should be ashamed of that. Does that say anything about me, or about him?

Цитата Deadhead
There is another cool story about ARM partialy integrated in later versions of HLA, by his personal partisipation, and after that he starts to whine that HLA siezed to much of his mod and killed it. Dispite the disclaimer for ARM, where he permit free use of this mod.

Did I ever tell you about that time Gutierrez stole a few models from BSM? He did not ask or tell me about it, and I never bothered to point out this fact to him. That could be considered stealing, a word he likes to throw your way as well, so don't take him as any moral authority on this.

Цитата Deadhead
So, as you can see, this is much more than simple homophobia, it is a part of something bigger.
To make a mod and release it to the public requires a few things. You need to be able to defend your ideas, and you need to be able to listen to criticism. You need to have patience dealing with the same questions time after time. If you ever make a mistake, you need to be able to own it and then fix it as soon as possible.

If you don't have all of the above tools, you end up with something called "the modders disease". It might surprise you, but Gutierrez' behavior is actually typical when suffering from this. There is especially one guy who made a mod for Skyrim that has the exact symptoms. He started out as a normal person, but after a few years of having to deal with people playing and critiquing his work his mind got broken. To me, it is clear that Gutierrez has suffered the same faith.

Yes, this is much bigger problem than homophobia, it's about a person spiraling down before our eyes and nobody doing anything about it. As I said before, I have no anger towards Gutierrez, only pity. The reason I make fun of him is because in my experience, when people are so far from reality, the only way to reach them is with a joke.

20  
Цитата Surgeon
Основным лейтмотивом любой игры будет продвижение от простого к сложному (читай - от дерьмового оружия к топовому). Этот принцип выдержан в ARM. Для того, чтобы полноценно играть - нет необходимости в каком-либо определённом оружии. Есть потребность в грамотной тактике.
Here is my main complaint with that philosophy. Much like in Jagged Alliance 2, around mid game the game only offers a limited number of tactics viable for a player to use. If a player specializes in night ops, he could easily iron man those parts with a single merc.

I don't want to brag, but I find the game extremely easy to play at any level. I discovered what tactics worked and which didn't a long time ago. I started playing the game using a wide variety of tactics, and this is where the wide arsenal plays a great part.

The amount of game complexity has let me tweak the different stats to make weapons actually feel different depending on many factors. The player can play the game using the easy tactics, like most first time players would. But for those of us knowing the game as well as we do, we can enjoy it on a whole other level.

Here's a link to an old LP I made a couple of years ago. You can clearly see how easy the game looks, and I still used as varied tactics as I could smile

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/lets-play-7-62hc-again-total-eclipse-of-the-blue-sun-sslp.73893/

Anyways, thanks for your insightful answers, I think I have gained WISDOM+2 just having this discussion biggrin

16  
У любой игровой модели есть свои плюсы, есть свои ограничения. Еще плюсом новой системы будет возможность тонкой настройки для каждого оружия.

Женя ты меня искренне забавляешь своими "рефлексом наехать". Ты можешь прочитать фразу полностью? Про "пенальти в зависимости от калибра и типа оружия"? В этот раз ты решил критиковать новую модель, которую не видел, не пробовал, только услышал лишь упоминание и общее описание. Забыв, что придуманный тобой "костыль" значительно примитивней и вызывает больше возражений. В последнее время традиционный для тебя подход, к сожалению.

P.S. Истинная глупость - вести себя так.

17  
Видишь ли...
Во-первых, у Dancer'а есть одна характерная черта: если он что-то уже сделал, взял и т.п., то уже не даст заднего хода. Поэтому такие вещи лучше "простреливать" загодя и лучше перебдеть, чем недобдеть. Это единственный шанс, что глупость не пойдет в ротацию.
Во-вторых, время, проходящее от обнаружения неувязки до выхода новой версии аддона с исправлением, в HLA изрядно велико, что тоже говорит, что критику надо писать сразу при получении информации о возможном косяке.

А принять к сведению или в очередной раз послать меня куда подальше - это ваше дело.

Нынешний "костыль" близко к реальности описывает ситуацию. Недавно имел возможность обсудить это с человеком, достаточно хорошо владеющим темой на практике. Поэтому вся надежда, что "новая система тонкой настройки" будет отключаема или корректируема.

Сожалею, что завел этот разговор.

18  
-- Нынешний "костыль" близко к реальности описывает ситуацию.
В принципе я согласен о его работоспособности, с небольшим комментарием: "за неимением горничной..."(с). Если не применять его к пистолетам-пулеметам и т.п. возражения, которые уже обсуждались.

Согласен, что сейчас обсуждение лучше прекратить. Увидишь модель - прокомментируешь, что можно было бы сделать иначе. Когда захочешь.

19  
Чтобы настроить такую модель, равно как и чтобы ее проверить, нужны статистические данные отстрела оружия. А такие данные для сложенных прикладов отсутствуют. Имеются только отзывы "бывалых", в которых точность оружия со сложенным прикладом характеризуется емкими матерными словами. Именно по этой причине я отказался от дифференциации показателей в рамках имеющегося функционала. И поэтому на выходе "новая система", вероятно, должна либо предстать плодом незамутненной фантазии, либо стремиться к тем показателям, которые реализованы сейчас.

15  
Это даже не про цвет (хотя на британском слэнге оно именно это и обозначает), а про:
"Some people like sex with woman, others like to have some variation".
По-моему полностью отражает "философию BSM".

К тому же Швеция входит в Евросоюз, где гей-парады вполне в порядке вещей... "ОМОНовцы" на фото в синей форме. Солнечный день... Всё политкорректно. И да, я - не дипломат.
:))))

21  
I don't usually respond when someone is trying to troll me, but this was a too good opportunity to let pass by without a response. I hope my reply is received the way it is intended, as a humorous response to a challenge raised by Gutierrez. I feel no ill-will towards anyone here, or that I have been offended in any way. I just have no respect for this person in particular.

If you are easily offended, I suggest you stop reading this post right now.


22  
Ты зря кипятишься, Бьёрн. У меня в мыслях не было объявлять тебя гомосексуалистом. Я использовал это как аллегорию, чтобы читателям данного материала стала лучше понятна разница доктрин Arma Realista и Blue Sun. Тем более, если ты сам пишешь, что у вас гей-парады только приветствуются (мне это тоже известно), то вообще непонятно, что ты мог найти недоброжелательного в моем сравнении. smile
А по поводу английского языка, извини, но я в школе изучал британский английский. Как и большинство россиян. И ты, продвигая свой продукт в России, полагаю, должен это учитывать.

23  
You never fail to meet expectations... lol

You spend 5 paragraphs explaining why you think BSM and it's philosophy is stupid. Then you say this:

Цитата Gutierrez

Я бы сформулировал немного иначе:
"Some people like sex with woman, others like to have some variation".
:)))))

Это даже не про цвет (хотя на британском слэнге оно именно это и обозначает), а про:
"Some people like sex with woman, others like to have some variation".
По-моему полностью отражает "философию BSM".

К тому же Швеция входит в Евросоюз, где гей-парады вполне в порядке вещей... "ОМОНовцы" на фото в синей форме. Солнечный день... Всё политкорректно. И да, я - не дипломат.
:))))


Your excuse is this:
Цитата Gutierrez
Я использовал это как аллегорию, чтобы читателям данного материала стала лучше понятна разница доктрин Arma Realista и Blue Sun. Тем более, если ты сам пишешь, что у вас гей-парады только приветствуются (мне это тоже известно), то вообще непонятно, что ты мог найти недоброжелательного в моем сравнении.


Now, do you mean that BSM is great and you love it, and the same goes for homosexuals? Or do you mean the opposite? Do you even think before posting? Could you please explain your logic behind this? facepalm

I took the time and read your complaints, and they are so full of errors I don't have the energy to correct you on all of them. But there was one thing that caught my interest, namely this:

Словосочетание "текстура в стиле BSM" уже устойчиво стало синонимом словосочетанию "скверно выполненная текстура"

Can you show me where anyone but you have said anything like this? If you do, I'll show you where BSM is named one of the greatest mods ever played, together with the great DayZ mod. You see, you have some weird imaginary version of BSM in your head, and it is not based on any reality I know of. It seems you have taken every suggestion from someone playing BSM as something I would agree with. This couldn't be further from the truth, and if you just stopped being so ignorant about this you might even regain my respect. smile

If you study British English you should have noted my spelling sooner. I wanted to point out the humor(note American spelling, not British humour tongue ) that I to have a level of detail in my work that might even surprise you.

12  
Hello brothers! Very glad to see the two of you in this discussion.
Привет братья! Очень рад видеть вас двоих в этой дискуссии.
Миша извини, нет сил и желания переводить, иначе я бы уже перевел стартовый текст.

Discussion about the butt folded soon become history. Currently designed, implemented and tested mechanism to adjust the performance characteristics of weapons with the butt folded. It provides for equal accuracy when firing single and penalties depending on the class and caliber weapons firing bursts.
Дискуссия про сложенные приклады скоро станет историей. В данный момент продуман, реализован и тестируется механизм корректировки ттх оружия при сложенном прикладе. Он предусматривает равную точность при стрельбе одиночными и пенальти в зависимости от калибра и класса оружия при стрельбе очередями.

Join the discussion.
Присоединюсь к обсуждению, если позволите конечно.

Approach to arms lineup BSM focused on fan audience and quality requirements for weapon models sacrificed diversity. It's great fun and it follows from the belief that the tactics of battle in the game depends on the performance characteristics of weapons, skills, mercenaries, and other gaming options.
Подход к оружейной линейке в BSM ориентирован на фан-аудиторию и требования к качеству моделей оружия принесены в жертву разнообразию и доступности. Это здорово, весело и вытекает из мнения что тактика боя в игре зависит от ттх оружия, навыков наемников и других игровых параметров.

An alternative approach - developed and tested in AR mode based on the fact that a key influence on tactics in combat - the player's actions, the use of location features, reliable interaction mercenaries.
For this approach does not require a million guns. And replayability built on brute tactics, rather than equipment.
Альтернативный подход - разработанный и тестированный в АР моде построен на том, что ключевой влияние на тактику в бою - действия игрока, использование особенностей локации, грамотное взаимодействие наемников.
Для такого подхода не требуется миллион пушек. И реиграбельность построена на переборе тактики, а не снаряжения.

Limited range for greater consistency and compliance Latin really get the understanding and support of the overwhelming majority of the audience addon.
Of course there are fans and haters of each option. Not educated and confident people allow themselves to insult other players choice. This is inevitable, but not to the game, but only describes them who they are.
Ограничение ассортимента в пользу большей логичности и соответствия латиноамериканской действительности получило понимание и поддержку подавляющего большинства аудитории аддона.
Конечно найдутся поклонники и ненавистники каждого из вариантов. Не воспитанные и самонадеянные люди позволят себе оскорблять выбор других игроков. Это неизбежно, но не относится к игре, а только характеризует их теми, кем они и являются.

Personally, my opinion - this is great that both approaches are implemented. Players can choose from. Everybody can play what he likes. And who wants to fill in the "diversity" and touch unique weapon - get another motive to learn English. Either do something themselves and prove that they are very important opinion is shared by at least a dozen players.
Лично мое мнение - здорово что оба подхода реализованы. Игроки могут выбирать. Каждый может играть в то, что ему нравится. А кому хочется играть в "разнообразие" и потрогать уникальное оружие - получают еще один мотив учить английский язык. Либо самим сделать что-нибудь и доказать что их очень важное мнение разделяет хотя бы десяток игроков.

14  
Thank you very much Vorot, you summarized both positions in an excellent way. I agree with you on all points respect

I had hoped that we could have a good discussion about different approaches to playing the game, there are many readers enjoying this and it makes them think about things differently. Michael and I came a good distance achieving that, but someone always needs attention and starts acting like a child. How can anyone be expected to respect someone like that?

So I say thanks for this time, I'll be back once more players has commented on their impression on the BSM philosophy, hopefully after playing the 2.1 version bye

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